|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 15:43:08 -
[1] - Quote
I love the people that comment that they haven't used ISboxer yet like the change. Umm how would you know if it is good or bad then?
To the ISboxers that are quitting.. don't be suck weenies. This doesn't change the game that much for us.
Example: fly in fleet and fleet warp to...
Remap your DXNothing page to that all your mods are handy and are click able within fractions of a second of each other.
It is just a simple work around. Sure you can't broadcast anymore boo hoo.. you'll learn to work without that.
I understand it is a pain in the assteroid but change comes and we have to deal with it.
And for those that call us botters... they really need to get a clue. |
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 16:15:57 -
[2] - Quote
Elisha Habah wrote:Now am I missing something here but what has tanking and pled prices got to do with ISBOXER..........
you run a ten man fleet and make enough isk to buy the plex off the market for each account.
Tanking... that is a term that I believe was used incorrectly |
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 18:39:12 -
[3] - Quote
white male privilege wrote:Mining with 10 hulks takes the exact same time to plex all of your accounts as it does for a regular guy mining with one character to plex his one account.
white male privilege wrote: So after the multicaster has made his plex for the month he can then continue mining making ten times what a regular player can, or he star pvping, doing bombing runs by himself which is again an unfair multiplier of the veteran's time spent in eve.
Ok you've just contradicted yourself and or simply can't add numbers.
If it takes me 10 days in 1 hulk to earn a plex.. 10 accounts would take me... 10 days if all said and done were equal.
While the "miltiboxer" (not multicaster.. save that for the fantasy games) will have another 20 days to do what ever, so would the solo player.
ISboxer has very little to do with that. I can take all my toons and launch them in fleet and take out a belt. I might be able to take that belt 10 times faster than a solo player but my costs are 10 x as large.
So NO multiboxing with ISboxer with the same ships in the same situation is NOT more profitable at least when it comes to mining.
I can't speak for incursions or missioning because I haven't tried ISboxer in that situation.
|
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 19:12:18 -
[4] - Quote
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
If a single person with a single account needs 10 days to plex his account, he than has 20 days to mine/pve or whatever to gain ISK worth 2 additional plexes. the single person with 10 accounts makes ISK worth 20 additional plexes in the same time. As he doesn't need those ISK to plex his account, he can buy a super/titan 10 times faster than the single player.
In theory yes, that is possible if all the funds were channeled to the main character. In practice that may have happened but usually skill costs, ammo costs and general main costs prohibit that. As stated keeping 10 toons is 10 times more expensive than keeping 1 toon. When you're talking an end game ship (you can't go any further), it is actually easier to fast track it on a single character and plex that toon.
We're not talking theory here.. that are no "what if s" or "he COULD do that" . CCP has made a decision and many (too many) have a misconception of what is really happening on our side. Our side is the exact same as yours... we just have more toons doing it.
If it costs you xxx to replace a ship... it costs us the same. Skill books and time are the same only compounded. No biggie.
|
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 19:35:42 -
[5] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:
accelerated gameplay lies in the higher efficiency of broadcasted input. While you would loose a lot of time cycling through your clients, locking targets at each single one of them manually, firing weapons manually, you name it, isbotter removes most of this human interaction overhead (->accelerated gameplay) and gain massive advantage oversomeone not using such automation tools - this is exactly the reason why people isbotted primarily, why they want to keep it in some way or another or seeking for workarounds around now changed policy.
actually not really. I have been running 5 toons for quite a while mining in fleet. cycling through all five of them is less than a few seconds. This changes the game slightly but not by much.
Example: 10 toons mining. ISboxer's broadcast feature is prohibitive because who whats 10 toon hitting the same rock at the same time?
10 toons in pvp vs a larger ship... yes you want all 10 to target the same ship at the same time. Thus CCP rules.
There is an advantage to ISboxer .. yes. That's why it was designed O_o. This advantage WAS open to all players. Those that didn't use it shouldn't cry. Those that did.. also should have seen this coming.
|
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 20:14:27 -
[6] - Quote
Kaliba Mort wrote:Cervix Thumper wrote: ISboxer has very little to do with that. I can take all my toons and launch them in fleet and take out a belt. I might be able to take that belt 10 times faster than a solo player but my costs are 10 x as large.
So NO multiboxing with ISboxer with the same ships in the same situation is NOT more profitable at least when it comes to mining.
You pay for ISboxer and you don't know that advantages? Shame on you to think the rest are that naive. 1. you have 10 chars, so you mine for 10 plexes, takes you 10 days 2. you want 10 plexes for your PvP alt for next month - you mine for 10 days. 3. you want to replace a dread - mine for 4 days. Now, if you are solo, 1. you want a PLEX, you mine for 10 days 2. you want 10 plexes for your PvP alt for next month. You mine for 100 days? oops 3. you want to replace a dread. mine for 40 days? The PLEX cost is a fixed cost. But the profit above those fixed costs is multiplied by number of characters. It's the same for mining, as missioning, as ratting as Incursions. This is also why majority (all?) of PvE ISboxers pay with PLEXes for their alts. There is a saying - don't **** on someone and say it's raining.
Not exactly true but closely accurate.
If you are solo and have to replace a dread yes it is going to take you a long time a VERY long time. Having 10 toons do the job for you will speed up that process but I have to pay 10 plex not 1.
If you need 10 plex for a pvp alt then you are not solo are you? you have 2 accts and it would take you 5 days (per month).. thus the mining grind to break even monthly (dedicating all those resources to 1 acct). I've done that.. it is not pretty.
In the even that you're not wardec'd.. you're not ganked, everything is peachy creamy in your eve life.. then in THEORY yes. It is possible.
I'm speaking from first hand experience with the program. Are you? If not.. than pls get off the hate bandwagon.
To think we make more ISK than others is not untrue but we also have to spend more. It is a simple fact of the game. |
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 16:22:28 -
[7] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:
This announcement comes with a 1 month look-ahead warning. What if someone subscribed a large number of accounts for a year, while depending on what has been for years a legal avenue of gameplay?
Exactly. I had purchased 2 new toons simply to use with ISBoxer (with the intention of purchasing 8 more). I then purchased ISBoxer and started setting it up and playing with it. The day I was able to get all the ships to launch together in formation (via broadcasting), was the day this notice came out.
Do I feel perturbed about subbing 2 accts for a year? somewhat. Do I feel cheated for purchasing ISBoxer when its main feature is going to get nerftf? A little.
Should CCP have given us a little more notice. Yea... that would have been appreciated. Adding a little lube to the stick in the butt would have been nice.
Will I keep playing eve? oh yea.. will I continue to multibox? hell yea. Will this change have a huge impact? That is something yet to be seen.
What is surprising is the amount of anger and hostility shown here in this "discussion". If the active forum posters represent a small faction of the player base, then I am more than happy to keep multiboxing and doing my own thing.
|
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 18:14:58 -
[8] - Quote
Going back a few pages...
Mike Azariah wrote: 3) Yes there are workarounds, some using ISBoxer, others using scripted mice or keyboard. Some are fair game others skate close enough to the edge that they risk a ban. Basically it comes down to a question of economics. Are you willing to risk ALL your accounts (and assets) being banned by skating on the thin ice knowingly? Risk vs reward in the metagame.
This is very disturbing. For a few reasons. A 1 man team of 10 gets caught... 10 accounts banned? As opposed to the main that is commanding the fleet that is the account that ISboxer is logged into? That is kind of harsh.
Then 10 acct fleet teams up with some buddies for a roam... All parties involved would have to be investigated and I am sure the ban hammer would not spare some of the innocents.
This seems like it would be an administrative nightmare investigating false claims, alt accts replying they were acting independently, and the fleet members that really had nothing to do with any transgression.
In reality the punishment doesn't fit the crime really.
Banning AN account would. Banning all no.
Oh wait then if the TOS / EULA isn't updated to include this and some will say they haven't read THIS forum discussion.. oops they still get banned anyway?
That just doesn't fit right.
|
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 19:32:15 -
[9] - Quote
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:[quote=Cervix Thumper]Going back a few pages...
Thats why there's a month ban first. As stated in the OP. I'm also pretty sure that only those accounts which are actually broadcasting/recieving the broadcasts will get banned, since all detection will be on their servers when commands enter. The other people will not constantly hit every button at the exact same time.
Yes.. but according to that above quote it said ALL accounts. so suppose I am running 3 but own 10. I transgress and since all 10 are under the same user .. that could be a HUGE issue.
Point #2: 3 toons transgress a second time. = 3 permabans. = $300
In fleet 10 toons 10 transgress = 10 permabans. =$1000
scary thought.
Replicator: =$3000 lost instantly for the same transgression as a 3 toon player.
No I can not and will not agree with this.
Rep (sorry for using you as an example) may cost players ISK. Those players are spread out and in turn fuel the market. There is no $1000 ~ $3000 hit to an individual player by any ISboxer out there that I know of. These guys make ppl spend MORE, not less.
Just food for thought. |
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 14:10:43 -
[10] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:
The most likely scenario was someone was afk hauling 20b in a freighter, got ganked, and then bitched in alliance chat and at the GM in his petition and posted a tear-filled thread in GD. CCP saw this, or a CSM did, and they are now on some moral crusade against ISBoxer claiming that it's as bad as the botting carriers.
Prob not...
In actuality people that have petitioned that they lost their ship(s) to boxers have had a very good success rate of getting them back. Maybe the CSMs were tired of the super ganks happening and declared it unfair. We'll never know the actual reason but the super gank seems the most plausible.
|
|
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 17:44:17 -
[11] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Deck Cadelanne wrote:Recyclers wrote:
Well I just unsubed all 9 of my accounts. Not just because of the multiboxing thing. CPP ramming way to many changes at once. I play games if there fun. When there not.... oh well
If even one more subscription *paying* player replaces you, that is a net win. And you have just reduced the demand for PLEX ever so slightly, so even good for your fellow non-sub-paying brethren. Are you another one of those people who think using PLEX to sub somehow takes away from CCP's revenue? Because that's wrong. CCP / a CSM explained that PLEX is under the "deferred income" tab, not "expenses".
don't be dense... if they unsubscribed they stopped paying the re-subscription cost. That is real life money. |
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 18:14:57 -
[12] - Quote
Deck Cadelanne wrote:[quote=Nolak Ataru] You unsub the nine characters you are currently using in-game ISK to pay for, all that happens is you reduce the demand for PLEX ever so slightly.
no actually that is backasswards.
You have have toons on subscription. when you unsubscribe them they rely on in game currency (Isk) to purchase Plex to extend the monthly play time. This drives the price of plex UP because they are no longer on subscription terms. O_o
Some of the gob that spews on this forum is just incredible.
unsubscribing is not the same as quitting... make no mistake about it. They are just not going to pay real hard currency into CCP's wallet anymore. |
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 18:51:42 -
[13] - Quote
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:
Price of subscription: 10-15 euro. Price of plex: 20 euro. How do you figure they will continue playing without paying real hard currency? Someone else might pay for them through plex, but someone pays aslong as they play, and with plex they pay even more than they would by "dropping real hard currency into ccp's wallet".
again that is incorrect terms of the topic of this thread.
A player can earn enough ISK to purchase a subscription for 1 month (plex) via ISK on the market within 1 month, is that correct?
Thus if someone can unsubscribe AND earn enough ISK to pay for that account for the month they are playing for free.
Now comes the sticky part... do boxers have enough advantage to earn that amount of ISK per character to unsubscribe and go completely independent? Possibly, depending on their skill level, game play style and actual game input time.
It takes a lot of guts to unsub. Kudos for that. There will always be ppl selling Plex because they purchased it and want to buy the bigger shinier thing.
I have seen boxers boast 1 bill ISK in a day or less... so what? I'm not at that level and 1 bill in a day divided by 10 accts = 100,000,000 . Yea that is doable but not at my level. If the person will unsub and can accomplish this across 9 toons... more power to them. That is well within their right to do so. To bash a person for doing so... that is just bad form. |
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 19:18:57 -
[14] - Quote
I understand that and I do buy plex from CCP and sell it on the market on a regular basis.
As stated in my position above... O_o
loosing 9 subscriptions (which is a regular revenue stream) does not equate to someone buying and selling plex because they want the isk to buy shiny toys (inconsistent revenue stream).
And it is because they don't pay for themselves that they don't pay. Someone else is paying for them to play. Someone has to keep this company alive.
I am not going to say all, or a few, or some, or the majority... but boxers DO pay subscriptions. and We do buy and sell plex to buy things and replace losses just like everyone else. On a per capita basis I'd bet we inject 5x more hard currency into this game than the average player (all things being equal).
|
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 19:38:58 -
[15] - Quote
dude just get an ultra wide for $300 it will replace 2 of your standard screens. |
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 15:52:25 -
[16] - Quote
Commentus Nolen wrote:I tried to find this program "Video FX" and all I could find was a video editing program. Is Video FX the correct name?
no it is a feature part of ISboxer and the Innerspace software.
You tube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA88ndjh8x4
|
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 15:55:13 -
[17] - Quote
Madd Adda wrote:
which translates to 250 more plex on the market to buy, which will be scooped up by others. Demand is lower than before, but is still greater than the supply.
If demand was greater than supply there would be none on the market. |
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 16:13:25 -
[18] - Quote
Rosewalker wrote: So if each person averaged 10-20 accounts each, that's 250-500 Inner Space licenses that will not be renewed. At $50 a year, that means Lavish Software is going to lose $12,500 - $25,000 USD in the first year.
A) 34 subs * 50/ y = 1700 5000 subs * 50/y = 250,000
B) We can use Lavish across as many toons as we want. So loosing a 34 char sub = a loss of $50
C) Why would they unsub from Lavish if they can use it on other games? (unless the only use they have for it is Eve)
Just to keep numbers rounded.. 1 player with 10 toons and unsubscribes from Eve will drain the Eve cash wallet of $1000 / year (aprox) 1 player with 10 toons and unsubscribes from Lavish will drain the Lavish wallet of $50 / year (aprox)
and that is just in subscriptions fees alone.
I don't know about you, but I have a feeling that CCP will loose more from boxers unsubbing than Lavish will.
|
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 16:23:22 -
[19] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:CCP is attempting to appease a vocal minority by implementing a massive change, and whenever a company listens to the vocal minority instead of attempting to get a poll from a greater majority of the playerbase and act upon it, bad things happen.
=D can all our toons participate in this Poll?
|
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 17:00:20 -
[20] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:That will be breaking the EULA after the new ruling starts. As I understand it you can you use that pesky ISBoxer type software to log on all your clients at once in a matter of seconds. I watch people doing this now by adding them to contacts & watchlists. . But after the new ruling begins you won't be allowed to use that software to start multiple accounts doing the same thing at the same time. Personally I feel it would be clearer & cleaner to make all usage of ISBoxer type software illegal. We can stop beating about the bush then.
Literacy 101? IS boxer isn't banned only 1 of the features it provides is. Logging in with ISboxer takes just as long and regular multiboxing. Doing the same thing at "the same time" (while in game) has been rendered illegal. |
|
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 17:53:37 -
[21] - Quote
Rosewalker wrote:Cervix Thumper wrote:Rosewalker wrote: So if each person averaged 10-20 accounts each, that's 250-500 Inner Space licenses that will not be renewed. At $50 a year, that means Lavish Software is going to lose $12,500 - $25,000 USD in the first year.
A) 34 subs * 50/ y = 1700 5000 subs * 50/y = 250,000 B) We can use Lavish across as many toons as we want. So loosing a 34 char sub = a loss of $50 C) Why would they unsub from Lavish if they can use it on other games? (unless the only use they have for it is Eve) Just to keep numbers rounded.. 1 player with 10 toons and unsubscribes from Eve will drain the Eve cash wallet of $1000 / year (aprox) 1 player with 10 toons and unsubscribes from Lavish will drain the Lavish wallet of $50 / year (aprox) and that is just in subscriptions fees alone. I don't know about you, but I have a feeling that CCP will loose more from boxers unsubbing than Lavish will. I don't actually understand point A, or how you disagree with me on point B. Are you knocking off points because I didn't show my work? Also, unless you buy into Lucas' implied argument (which is a reasonable one) that the lowering of the price of the ISK price of PLEX will drive people to buy ISK from shady ISK sellers, thus meaning that CCP loses money, the only financial loss I see from this is from all the ISBoxers who are going to drop accounts that they were using RL currency to pay for. And we don't know that percentage. However, since CCP has been monitoring the activity of ISBoxer users for months, they probably have a pretty good idea of any potential financial hit. Apparently, they don't mind the results, which could mean that 1) the hit is small enough they won't notice or 2) they believe they will make money on the move. The third option, of course, is that they know they are going to take a significant financial hit, but the negative effects of input broadcasting/multiplexing are so bad for the game that they have no choice but to act.
in part yes, I don't know how you came to get the numbers explained in your previous post. But as outlined above.. CCP would take the larger hit and I suppose it is due to the number of replacement ships they are giving out + labour involved in processing those tickets that has prompted this move.
paying x number of CSMs x amount to process ISboxer gank claims does add up... then there are the # of other boxer transgression (50+ in mining) etc... well either way... I didn't understand where you get your figures from but I can understand with CCPs decision. I may not agree with it, but I do have to comply.
|
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 18:35:26 -
[22] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
More or less killing off ISboxer is a good thing, so I support CCP on this.
If CCP did not more or less kill ISboxer they would be in the wrong.
It is not a question of supporting CCP because they are CCP, but a question of doing the right thing by the game in a holistic sense.
In this instance, CCP are doing the right thing.
In your opinion and the opinion of several others but not in mine and several others. Unless there is a poll taken we won't know what the majority think. And the majority are not reading this thread or are involved in the forums. So it is a moot point.
Opinion vs opinion doesn't solve anything.
We have don't have like it, as said before adapt or move on. Some are choosing to move on some are choosing to adapt. We'll suss it out when the time comes.
|
|
|
|